AHWA chats with Ellen Datlow
[Ellen Datlow] If I'm ever invited to the New Zealand convention, I might be able to do both.
[ashamel] I should ask about good cons to go to for networking, but maybe that should be an official question after more people have arrived
[Ellen Datlow] If you're going to ask about cons outside of Australia, yes, let's wait.
[kylaw] 7.51 pm sounds like a vaguely civilised hour. I hope you are well. May I ask how things are going?
[kylaw] Or is that an official question too?
[Ellen Datlow] Things are going well, although I'd like to be editing more anthologies
[ashamel] Inferno looks good
[Ellen Datlow] I don't know...should it be official? I can certainly answer more formally when we start
[ashamel] (an official opinion :-)
[Ellen Datlow] David: thanks
[Ellen Datlow] I've got a great new Dowling story in it.
[ashamel] Good stuff
[kylaw] Oh great, but I really wish his (rumoured) novel would come out.
[brettmcbean] hey guys
[Ellen Datlow] Have you heard much about it?
[kylaw] Only that it was called "The Clown At Midnight" last time I spoke to him.
[MartyY] Thanks Adam
[Damien Kane] Will a transcript of this be available?
[Ellen Datlow] Ok. And when we start I'll try to remember to post ga (go ahead) after I finish a question.
[Ellen Datlow] I wonder if that's the novel I saw a few years ago and tried to buy for Tor...sounds like it if it's about clowns.
[ashamel] Yes, we'll publish a transcript
[kylaw] IN sepia?
[ashamel] Terry on clowns sounds very scary
[MartyY] The Clown at Midnight is a good title - invokes quite a spooky image for me
[Ellen Datlow] It was good and creepy.
[ashamel] Did you see Pilo Family Circus?
[ashamel] That was Australia's big clown novel of late
[Ellen Datlow] Iwas just going to ask if you've all read that. I love it.
[ashamel] Yeah, freaky stuff
[brettmcbean] very good book
[kylaw] It was a trip.
[kylaw] I do like the sensation that I really shouldn't be laughing.
[Ellen Datlow] I passed the author on to at least one of my editors here to see if the publisher would be interested.
[Ellen Datlow] Don't know if he's sold it in the US yet.
[ashamel] (I've been talking to Will about upcoming stuff. Probably can't say anything official, but he looks like he is doing well)
[MartyY] Hopefully William Elliott might join us today
[brettmcbean] I thought it was William only when he was being naughty
[Ellen Datlow] Oh good. I've been in touch with Will by email. He seems like a really nice guy.
[ashamel] He is a very naughty boy
[MartyY] Heh heh - yeah, Will. I've been in trouble this morning so I've been getting called Martin
[Ellen Datlow] My watch says 8:02.
[ashamel] Let's do it
[Ellen Datlow] OK
[Ellen Datlow] (my watch says one thing my computer another but none of my clocks/watches ever match up.)
[ashamel] I'll start by asking about Inferno
[ashamel] What is it, and when is it coming?
[MartyY] Was going to start was saying a big thank you to Ellen for taking some time out of her Saturday night to join us
[Ellen Datlow] Ok...it's my first non-theme horror anthology and it's a big one--about 149,000 words--it's coming out from Tor in early December.
[Ellen Datlow] You're very welcome
[ashamel] So is it not about hell as such?
[ashamel] That was the impression I had
[MartyY] Hi Talie
[Ellen Datlow] Not at all. The idea came from a dinner party a loooong time ago when I said I wanted to edit a non-theme horror antho and asked for title suggestions..
[Ellen Datlow] Gordon Van Gelder said "call it '
[Ellen Datlow] 'Datlow's Inferno'---and I thought, oh yeah...that's silly...
[ashamel] Is is liberating not to have a theme?
[Ellen Datlow] but when I finally DID decide to do one and was trying to come up with a good title, that one kind of jumped out at me...well the Inferno part...so people can ask for "Datlow's Inferno" ;-)--the subtitle is Tales of Terror and the Supernatural (or something like that) so there shouldn't be any confusion. Nowhere on the flap copy does it mention Dante or hell.
[kylaw] If it was a club, I'd go!
[Damien Kane] Ellen, you state in an interview with Nancy O'Greene that you don't want to be a writer and never have. With your credentials and super-dooper experience, why wouldn't you want to capitalise by writing a novel?
[Ellen Datlow] Um, 'cause I can't write and have no ideas to write about....other than that. No problem
[brettmcbean] doesn't stop some folk...
[ashamel] Do you think there will be more non-themed anthologies?
[Ellen Datlow] I hope so. First of all I have a non-theme sf/f/h anthology coming out from Del Rey next year in June. I THINK the final title is The Del Rey Book of Science Fiction and Fantasy.
[anw] I just read that you asked for your fav authors to submit stories to inferno. Is there still a lot of work to do when your not picking and choosing?
[Ellen Datlow] If that one does well they'll commission a second one. I'm also hoping that Inferno will do well enough that Tor will allow me to edit a second horror anthology.
[Ellen Datlow] The idea is to edit them every other year for more time to solicit enough great stories to fill them.
[Ellen Datlow] anw, yes...even when soliciting from great writers, there's usually at least some editing and possible rewriting to be done.
[Ellen Datlow] Even when I solicit stories that doesn't mean I automatically buy what someone submits...there are NO sure things.
[altair] Hi Ellen Robert Stephenson here, can horrors like me write for you?
[Ellen Datlow] Hi Robert! Maybe--depending on what I'm working on at any given time :-)
[Damien Kane] What's the hardest part about being an editor - in your experience?
[Ellen Datlow] Damien: Turning down the stories that almost work but don't. Turning down stories by friends.
[Ellen Datlow] One of the best parts is actually working with a writer to make their story even better.
[Damien Kane] And the criticism you get - do you still stop responding? What's your worst experience from somebody you rejected?
[altair] Have you ever had to work on a great story, but its original delivery was poor?
[Ellen Datlow] Damien: Over the past twenty or so years, I've received about four really rude, nasty letters from writers whose work I've rejected.
[Ellen Datlow] Robert, I can't help make a lousy story good but I can help make a good story much better and hopefully a very good story great.
[Ellen Datlow] Not being a writer, I look at submissions differently than a writer would...
[ashamel] Is the 'short story' different today from when you started editing?
[Ellen Datlow] this can be good and bad for the writer. Unlike someone like Gardner Dozois, I'm not a story "doctor"--however, I also have no interest or ability to "rewrite" story for someone. I feel that's the writer's job. I can make suggestions as to how to fix ...
[kylaw] That's such a trick. I mean, for me as a writer. To look at my work as a reader.
[ashamel] In its conventions, or the expectations for it?
[Ellen Datlow] something --if there's a problem with the ending or a characterization or I feel things need to be clarified...but if a story is totally off-base, I don't feel I can really help with that.
[Ellen Datlow] Re: the short story being different today than 20 years ago...well, I think there's more mixed-genre kind of fiction being written--kind of sf/f mixed--and in a way I feel a little responsible for that (the good and bad aspects).
[Damien Kane] It appears from your LiveJournal that you're passionate about a recent article by Stephen King relating to 'What Ails the Short Story'. May I ask Ellen, what DOES ail the short story (if anything) and how can one improve on a story to be accepted?
[altair] I'm having the same problem. Lots of stuff to read.
[Ellen Datlow] I think writers should always submit to the highest paying markets first and go down the list. As long as small mags pay SOMETHING I think that's a good thing. I have a problem with mags that pay in nothing but copies. Which doesn't mean there aren't mags that do that and publish high quality (eg All Hallows--but it's a giveaway by the Ghost Story society to its members, so that's a little different from trying to be a "commercial mag."
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, I personally think that an editor should not rewrite someone else's story--I don't think Gardner does that--I haven't been in a workshop situation with him nor have I been a fly on the wall in his meetings with friends...a think it's more pinpointing a major problem and advising...but I may be wrong).
[altair] What would say has been the best antho your edited - enjoyed the most, and the one that you felt delivered the best?
[Ellen Datlow] Damien: I don't think anything ails the short story in the fantastic fiction genres (sf/f/h) other than a lack of markets and a lack of readers :-) As far as quality, I think there's work being published that's as good as any of the classics...I'm only talking "short stories/novelettes/novellas" as that's all I know and read
[Damien Kane] IF there's a lack of readers and markets, is the genre dying or increasing?
[Ellen Datlow] Robert...that's a tough one...I can't judge them as "best" but perhaps my favorites: I love Twists of the Tale, my cat horror antho (which I hope will be reissued by Prime in the next several months). I enjoy solo editing more than collaborative editing because it's all MY taste rather than the occasional compromise. Some have done better than others and I have no idea why. I have a soft spot for two of my anthos that didn't do well: Lethal Kisses my revenge and vengeance antho commissioned by a UK publisher (title was changed by the publisher at the last minute and I think that helped kill it)...and Off Limits, the follow up to Alien Sex. Lethal Kisses has never been published in the US and I'd love for it to be one day. And I'd like to get Off Limits back into print.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Which small press magazines do you enjoy the most?
[MartyY] Ellen, do you still get a chill from reading a good horror story? Or is it hard to read without your editing eye in?
[ashamel] (Q from Gary Kemble) What magazines should Australian horror writers be aiming for if we want our stories to cross your desk?
[Ellen Datlow] Damien: re: lack of markets and readers--I think the markets go up and down constantly. There are a LOT of online markets right now (I've been checking them out for YBFH)--but those that don't need to pay their contributors and figure out how to do so without going broke. I'm not sure about readers. We hear there aren't as many but I don't really know.
[altair] I've found some work I read for anthos get better after about the first bottle of wine. Have you ever made a mistake like this? Never did it again myself.
[anw] yeah, answer that one
[Ellen Datlow] without going broke. I'm not sure about readers. We hear there aren't as many but I don't really know.
[Ellen Datlow] Marty, I looove good horror stories. If I didn't, I couldn't still edit the YBFH or my original anthos. I slog through so much crap that the good stuff JUMPS right out at you.
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, you asked about small press mags I think...Well, most of the mags ARE small press these days so I'm not sure how to respond :-)
[robhood] Personally I find it impossible to keep up with reading new work -- let alone older stuff that is now considered "essential". You do it as a matter of course, Ellen. Do you find it tough not to get a bit jaded?
[robhood] Actually I think you just answered my question while I was typing it!
[Miranda Siemienowicz] So true...:) I'm thinking of mags like Electric Velocipede, Lady Churchill's - minimal production cost, mostly black and white, sometimes stapled affairs.
[Ellen Datlow] David: regarding markets for Australian writers to aim for...in the UK: INterzone, Albedo One, Postscripts, Black Static. In the US: Asimov's, F&SF, Chizine, Strange Horizons, basically any that you've heard of...Also Subterranean, Cemetery Dance.
[Talie Helene] Hi Ellen. Are there any books you'd recommend on editing - particularly addressing structural editing and the short story - that would be helpful to writers in the process of getting their stories up to publication standard?
[Ellen Datlow] Robert: I don't drink while reading for my anthos, so no problem there :-)
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, Yes, those are good ones, too.
[Ellen Datlow] There's also Paradox for alternate history.
[altair] I'm afraid of sending my Zombie antho to you. It is my taste after all and it has been questioned often enough. I love stories and simply love editing and writing them. But getting my anthos to be good? Scary stuff.
[Ellen Datlow] Talie Helene: as far as I know there aren't books on editing. There ARE plenty of books on writing...Nancy Kress has written excellent books on beginnings (and endings I think).
[ashamel] Alternate history seems big these days. Is there much of that in the horror markets that you see
[Ellen Datlow] I think the best way to learn the editing process is to workshop. That can help a lot (or harm you--you've got to find the right kind of workshop for you).
[Ellen Datlow] Robert: Don't you dare worry--I WANT to see that antho.
[martinlivings] Hi Ellen. My question is fairly selfish. What differentiates a great horror story from a merely good one? What are, say, the top three mistakes we're making?
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Which Australian publication do you think consistently produces the best work? (These questions are sure flying thick and fast...!)
[Talie Helene] Indeed - Nancy Kress' 'Beginnings, Middles & Endings' is great.
[Ellen Datlow] It's the tone, the voice, the characters, the setting--don't forget that it really is true that there are very few new ideas. It's NOT the idea, it's what you do with it that counts in all fiction.
[Ellen Datlow] Ok. Have I missed a question?
[altair] Not sure asking Ellen to pick a good Aust Mag is wise, but if you do have a fave?
[ashamel] I asked about alternate history. I'm curious if that bleeds over into horror
[Ellen Datlow] Um...I was thinking that's not such a great idea...name them first :-)
[ashamel] (I know there is a 'History is Dead' zombie antho coming out)
[Ellen Datlow] Some alternate history does bleed into horror. EVERYTHING bleeds into horror if it's dark enough.
[kylaw] And bleeds. He he!
[Damien Kane] Is editing about the eye, the experience or the education long-term?
[Ellen Datlow] I DO get tired of the too usual flesh eating zombie story...
[Ellen Datlow] Editing is about the eye and the experience. It's self-education...you cannot be taught editing except by doing.
[Ellen Datlow] I'm still learning how to edit. Every story I work on teaches me something else.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] I don't mean for you to criticise across the board, but if you've got any highlights you'd like to share. Off the top of my head I can think of Borderlands, Aurealis, ASIM, Agog! stuff...
[Damien Kane] A lot like writing I expect, Ellen! Interesting.
[Ellen Datlow] Don't forget I'm always looking for HORROR and for that reason don't care so much about the fantasy and sf mags--so it depends.
[Damien Kane] A lot like writing I expect, Ellen! Interesting.
[Ellen Datlow] Aurealis usually has some good horror stories. So does Borderlands and sometime Agog! It depends on what the Agog "theme" is...
[Ellen Datlow] Usually ASIM doesn't have any horror but I think one issue recently did and I was pleasantly surprise :-)
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Oh - Dark Animus is primarily horror, that's right.
[ashamel] (Another question from Gary) Are US publishers more likely to publish stories set in the US, or is location irrelevant provided the story is well-written?
[Damien Kane] A lot like writing I expect, Ellen! Interesting.
[Ellen Datlow] Don't forget I"m always looking for HORROR and for that reason don't care so much about the fantasy and sf mags--so it depends...
[altair] My thoughts exactly. I taught myself to edit - hard work and a hell of a lot of mistakes. After 30 novels I still don't think I've got it. Do you ever feel you continue to learn, Ellen?
[martinlivings] Is Dark Animus still coming out? I haven't seen an issue for maaaaaany moons now...
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Good question Gary. I'll add a question about Aussie vs US lingo (footpath vs sidewalk etc.).
[ckbezant] I'm sorry I'm a late entry so this may have well been asked - what is the value of getting an editor to look at your manuscript before sending it to agents/publishers - or should you rely on your own skills until getting an editor at the publishers
[robhood] I was talking to Graham Joyce the other night about problems the publishers have classifying his work. I've always put him in horror/fantasy -- but because he doesn't take the usual approaches horror fans get a bit twitchy. How problematic is the term?
[Miranda Siemienowicz] They have been very quiet, Martin. I don't know the latest.
[Ellen Datlow] Location is something that will make a US publisher more likely to buy your story--because it's "exotic" to us :-) However, if the story is TOO Australian (eg slangy) it won't work. The difference in words can be easily fixed.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] So US editors will change "truck" to "lorry" to make it more inteligible?
[MartyY] James Cain said he's still working on the special double issue of Dark Animus, so yes, he is still planning on continuing the mag
[anw] I had so much trouble playing police quest in the day. I was trying to open the boot and the game wanted trunk
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Thanks for the info, Marty.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Have you ever wanted or tried to write fiction of your own, Ellen?
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, depends on the context and where the story takes place. If it's set in Australia and in context, we understand that "lorry" means "truck"--I think most Americans now that...but for ex "skip" (UK term for those big trash containers for construction...it might be changed (although I can't even remember the US term for that off-hand...)...
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Hehe - trunk. Nice one.
[Damien Kane] I'm originally from England and had to change words like lorry, trunk, etc. It's difficult for a writer to do that y'know!
[ckbezant] when submitting to US agents/publishers, should you change such words in your manuscript before submitting?
[ashamel] Was editing a non-themed anthology liberating in comparison?
[martinlivings] That leads to - how do you see the Australian horror market for the time being, Ellen? It seems to be faltering, with the closure of Shadowed Realms and not a lot of local markets for horror, most markets being primarily SF/F.
[kylaw] I think changing to US spelling is at least polite.
[Ellen Datlow] I was Paul McAuley's novel editor for three books at Tor and his one British police procedural used terms that I didn't think Americans would get, so we worked a bit on that.
[ckbezant] I'll send them my check
[Miranda Siemienowicz] It comes down to House Style, doesn't it? We should be formatting dates and numbers they way they want them...
[Ellen Datlow] Different publishers/editors feel differently re: the variant spellings. I'd check first but the spelling to me is not a problem...again, it's when the words are completely different...
[altair] Sorry, Ellen, I've got some editing to get to this morning. It has been fun and a pleasure. Will get the zombie file to you. Lots of interesting questions. I learned a bit myself - cool. :}
[Ellen Datlow] Actually, the first one, Salon Fantastique was a bit scarier for Terri and me. Because it was our first time out (for both of us I think)...but like any anthology, the editor is more open at the beginning than later in the process...
[Miranda Siemienowicz] So submit early?
[Ellen Datlow] anything goes at first but as an anthology of any type fills up, your "needs" change and narrow as you try to balance everything. So Miranda yes, submit early
[Miranda Siemienowicz] I'll jot that down somewhere!
[Ellen Datlow] Robert, nice you could make it.
[Talie Helene] Ellen, do you use any particular US/UK/Australian dictionaries, or websites in editing different forms of English. I think Damien commented it's difficult for a writer to do - perhaps new writers may benefit from creating their own lists or stylesheets?
[ckbezant] good question talie
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, re: house style--when I'm editing an anthology, I have no idea what the house style is--that's for the copy editor to determine. However, if I want an anthology with "foreign" stories to maintain their flavor, I will make certain that the copy editor doesn't change the spellings...in an anthology a house style CAN me flexible but it does depend on the specific publisher and how anal they are.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] What an interesting point...
[Ellen Datlow] Helen, I'm not a copy editor--that's the copy editor's job.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] I'd never thought of it that way.
[Ellen Datlow] I mean Helene, sorry.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] (Just repeating earlier question.) Do you write your own fiction? Have you ever?
[Ellen Datlow] Are there questions I missed?
[Talie Helene] Talie (Helene) actually, but that's fine. I have one of those names.
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, sorry I already answered that early on. I don't write fiction and have no ability or intention to write fiction.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Oh - teach me for coming late!
[anw] how about a how to book?
[Ellen Datlow] Oops. So your whole first name is Talie Helene?
[Damien Kane] Wow - time is flying. I want Groundhog Hour. 8o(
[Ellen Datlow] (I thought Talie was your last name and somehow it got screwed up on the chatboard). Sorry..
[Talie Helene] Talie is my first name. But the second name gets mixed up all the time. I should have a drinking game.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Surely that would do more harm than good, Talie!
[Ellen Datlow] Helene is your last name? Now I really am confused
[Ellen Datlow] anw, I really don't think you can teach editing.
[Talie Helene] I know, but the "dark side" of my nature gets to play it out in theory.
[Damien Kane] Do you edit for the writer or the reader?
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Hehe. I should have one for surname pronunciation...
[robhood] Just to repeat a question: how problematic has the term "horror" become?
[Ellen Datlow] I learned by doing...Ben Bova allowed me to "edit" a story that came in and asked me why I did such and such and I told him, but that was the extent of my "formal" editing education. Although self-editing is a whole other thing...
[Talie Helene] Yes, Helene is my last name. But perhaps we should get back to topics more useful to the group. =)
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Nice one, Rob. It tends to conjure up thoughts of badly written, cliched pulp for many people.
[ashamel] Are publishers becoming more cautious about anthologies? It seems the novel is still gaining ascendancy
[ckbezant] would you have more success blending genres and disguising your horror heritage?
[Ellen Datlow] After I edited several of Bill Gibson's short stories for OMNI he told me that I then became his "editor on the shoulder" and that's the biggest compliment an editor can get--that your author thinks of you on his/her shoulder while writing.
[Ellen Datlow] Anthologies are ALWAYS a hard sell but there are more and more original anthologies coming out every year. I think the anthology market is relatively healthy right now.
[Ellen Datlow] I DO blend genres. That's what I've been doing for twenty years. My Del Rey antho cocombines sf/f/h.
[ckbezant] why do big, commercial bookstores (besides Borders) have no horror sections, while secondhand bookstores love them? A thinker.
[robhood] So the short story isn't going the way of the poem?
[ckbezant] thanks Ellen - a manuscript I'm finishing is thriller/horror/family drama - so it's good to hear.
[Ellen Datlow] Even though there are a few horror stories in the Del Rey book, it's being called SF and fantasy because I do think potential buyers WOULD be a little freaked out if they thought there was a lot of horror in the book, too.
[martinlivings] I've heard the theory that only writers read short stories. Do the sales figures of anthologies disprove this?
[MartyY] Ellen, through all the stories you read, can you see where the genre's heading? Is it losing its bogeyman or are the supernatural elements still as popular as ever before?
[Ellen Datlow] Horror came out of the mainstream book section and (I hope) has gone back into it where it belongs --but that's just my opinion. I was very happy that THE DARK was upfront in the "new fiction" area of B. Dalton when it first came out.
[Ellen Datlow] Rob: No way!!!
[Ellen Datlow] Martin: I hope it's more than writers reading my anthos! How would anyone know? What kinds of polls have been taken on the subject? It's all just talk.
[robhood] Good to know. Just yesterday someone at a local arts festival made the claim.
[ckbezant] Yes. It would be nice to be included as a fiction author in the fiction section instead of your own little black void down the back
[ckbezant] though it's not without its charm
[martinlivings] I wonder about that theory myself. I suspect it's the weird phenomenon that a much larger percentage of readers of spec fic either write or want to write themselves that gives the illusion that only writers are reading the stuff.
[Ellen Datlow] Marty: both psychological and supernatural horror fiction is still popular and selling. The biggest problem I see with horror these days is that the slasher movie has made horror seem like blood & guts to the average "reader"--it's done what Star Wars did to written sf.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Martin - I'm not sure about that. There's a lot of people who believe their family history needs to be fictionalised into the Great Literary Novel.
[robhood] Yes, I do a bit of defending of the subtle ghost story as horror to some online fans.
[kylaw] Mine was YA dark fantasy : )
[Ellen Datlow] I think it's a struggle getting the majority of readers to take sf and horror seriously because of the execrable stuff created in its name. For some reason, that has not happened with fantasy, and in fact Harry Potter did the opposite and has made "fantasy" a bit more respectable.
[Damien Kane] I'm probably wrong but it makes the genres sound inflexible.
[martinlivings] Actually, that raises a good question - has the recent resurgence of "torture porn" (Hostel, Saw, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake, etc) caused a boom in that style of written horror? Are you seeing that in what's coming across your desk at all?
[Ellen Datlow] A horror writer actually came up to me after he read THE DARK and said it wasn't "scary"--and I asked, oh it didn't make you feel uncomfortable or disturb you? He admitted it did--this totally pissed me off because here is a "horror" writer who has no idea what "scary" means any more because to HIM it means torture and depravity.
[MartyY] yeah, that's a big problem
[Ellen Datlow] Martin, that stuff has been written about for years.
[martinlivings] I know, but it's certainly going through a boom time for the moment (well, actually, the films have started to bust, so hopefully it's over!).
[Ellen Datlow] It didn't need the movies to create a boomlet. But it and the splattery crap that inspired it has done the field of horror a great disservice.
[Ellen Datlow] Damien, I'm sorry but what makes the genres sound inflexible? Not sure what you're referring to.
[Damien Kane] The stereotypical stuff to the reader; that horror is still pigeonholed by sadists and those recent films Martin stated before.
[Ellen Datlow] Readers will buy well told stories no matter what the "genre" is--but they may need to be fooled into buying what they THINK they don't like--if that makes sense.
[robhood] I keep trying to define the genre "horror" in terms other than "stuff that scares you" -- because that is SO subjective it becomes meaningless.
[Ellen Datlow] Oops. Marty...I'll be watching movies as soon as I get off here so can stay a little while longer if anyone wants me to.
[MartyY] Oh excellent!
[Damien Kane] I really appreciate your time, Ellen. It's been very insightful - thanks so much for your time!
[kylaw] Yes, most enjoyable.
[Talie Helene] You're welcome to stay as long as you care to Ellen.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] I had a last question, actually... How quickly do you decide whether the story you're reading is worth anything? One sentence? One paragraph?
[MartyY] I have to go though (am buying a ride-on-mower) so I'll hand you over to David Carroll
[robhood] What movies will you be watching, Ellen?
[Ellen Datlow] To me, horror is what disturbs--if something is dark enough to me it's "horror."
[Miranda Siemienowicz] (And I'll second everyone else - it's been great.)
[Ellen Datlow] By Marty.
[MartyY] Thanks again, Ellen. You've been wonderful.
[Talie Helene] Bye Marty!
[kylaw] I'll want to see pictures of that mower!
[ashamel] If I don't do a good job, I think Marty will be sending the mower in my direction
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda, if a story is really bad, you can tell in one sentence :-) If it's not bad but not great it takes longer...it might take the entire story to realize it's not going to work.
[Damien Kane] Good luck with the mower Marty. Check the blades for blood. At least you know they'll work.
[martinlivings] I have to make a move myself, got work to do to prepare for a housewarming party. But this has been great, thanks so much for doing this Ellen, having you so supportive of the AHWA and AUssie horror in general is just brilliant!
[Ellen Datlow] Rob: I've got three from netflix--I have to check brb
[Ellen Datlow] Ohhh... everyone's going...by Martin...but Rob if you wait a minute Ill check the movies. :-)
[Talie Helene] Now David, don't you & Marty make a mower splatterfilm, & give the genre a bad name.
[martinlivings] Ooh, I'd watch that!
[ckbezant] Didn't Peter Jackson already do that? Ooh.
[Damien Kane] I remember a bad New Zealand splatter scene with zombies and a lawnmower - can't remember what it's called but I larfed!
[robhood] I'm still here. I've got a pile of ghost movies to watch that takes up nearly an entire shelf. I can't keep up with reading or watching!
[kylaw] THat was BrainDead
[Ellen Datlow] The Good German, Red Eye, My Neighbor Totoro. I'll watch two out of the three tonight.
[ckbezant] The Good German is Good...
[ashamel] Red Eye is fun
[Ellen Datlow] Thanks everyone and keep on writing and submitting to US markets!!!
[robhood] There was a horror movie called "Blades". A possessed lawn mower, I believe.
[ashamel] Thanks greatly Ellen
[Damien Kane] Many thanks Ellan - good luck with everything!
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Thanks, Ellen!
[ckbezant] Thanks Ellen for a slice of your precious time
[Ellen Datlow] Wasn't that Lawnmower man?
[ashamel] Good luck with Inferno and all to come
[Ellen Datlow] You're very welcome! It's been great fun...
[Talie Helene] Cheers Ellen. It's been a treat.
[robhood] Love "Totoro". Beautiful film.
[Ellen Datlow] Ok. I"ll probably log off myself...
[robhood] Me too. Bye, Ellen. Thanks for being here.
[Ellen Datlow] ...or soon.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Last question! When will you be in Australia next!
[Ellen Datlow] I don't want to be the last man standing :-)
[Ellen Datlow] Miranda,
[Ellen Datlow] When someone flies me there! I'd love to come back.
[ashamel] I'll ask my official questions again :-)
[ashamel] What are good US cons to network at?
[Ellen Datlow] If I'm asked to teach Clarion South again, I'd be over the moon.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Well, would be a pleasure to run into you at a con somewhere.
[Ellen Datlow] Oh right, yes David: World Fantasy is very good (not always US), readercon is small but has a lot of writers/editors there...
[robhood] I guess I'll see you very shortly at WFC?
[Ellen Datlow] Rob--are you and Cat coming to NYC first?
[robhood] Yes. Just a day or so.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] You globetrotting chap, Rob...I'm jealous.
[Ellen Datlow] I know a lot of folk like Wiscon but I was there once and wasn't wild about it...however, I am attending in 08 to try it out one more time.
[robhood] Globetrotting, but broke!
[Ellen Datlow] Rob--you'll be here Wed?
[ashamel] May try to get to World Fantasy 08
[Ellen Datlow] Same here: globetrotting and broke...
[Ellen Datlow] I've been using frequent flyer miles for some trips now.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] That's probably the better option out of the two, really.
[ashamel] Canada sounds cool.
[kylaw] Brisbane is hot!
[Ellen Datlow] Is that the one in Calgary? I heard it's a little difficult to get to.
[Damien Kane] I'm in Brisbane to - and yeah it's hot!
[ashamel] That's right
[Ellen Datlow] I know--Brisbane was very hot and humid when I taught.
[Ellen Datlow] But hey, a free trip to oz and getting paid for it? I'd do it again in a flash--and travel afterwards.
[ashamel] I worry if I come in through the US, I'll be fingerprinted and deported :-)
[Ellen Datlow] David. What have you done???
[Damien Kane] When I came to Australia, Customs asked if I had a criminal record. I said, 'Sorry. I didn't know I needed one'.
[ashamel] Just the novel, I think :-)
[ckbezant] btw - hope your Halloween is good over there Ellen. Not so much happens in Perth - but we're going to the Freo Jail for a cheap scare.
[robhood] We get to NY on Mon 29th at 5pm
[robhood] We'll be in NY onm 29th Oct 5pm.
[Ellen Datlow] Damien....did you really --and they let you in?
[Ellen Datlow] Rob...so you'll be at the party...
[Ellen Datlow] right?
[Damien Kane] Nah - just joking. It sounded good in my head! (I wouldn't dare - would you!)
[Ellen Datlow] Hell no! (Damien)
[Talie Helene] That would be kind of exciting and rock-star though David; you just need to have a publicist ready to exploit your "celebrity deportation."
[robhood] Yes, indeed. Cat tells me we'll be in NY for 2 days. Maybe we can meet up?
[Ellen Datlow] I'm assuming some will want to eat after the party--we should do that...yes?
[robhood] Yes. Love to!
[Ellen Datlow] Monday that I'm hanging out with Lisa Tuttle and her family and Tuesday the Rodens.(IIRC)
[Ellen Datlow] But definitely dinner after the embassy...I assume there will NOT be loads of food there.
[Ellen Datlow] Sounds great.
[robhood] Sausage rolls and lamingtons, perhaps?
[Ellen Datlow] Um. what's a lamington?
[ashamel] It's a trap!
[Ellen Datlow] LOL.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Shock! Don't know what a lamington is? Rob - educate her when you meet up.
[Ellen Datlow] Uh oh....
[Ellen Datlow] How come I didn't have one while in oz?
[robhood] A lamington is a sort of sponge cake covered in thin layer of chocolate and coconut. Very kitch Aussie.
[Ellen Datlow] Ohhhh. I think someone tried to get me to eat them...they're a type of biscuit right?
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Not crunchy, though.
[Ellen Datlow] Ok. That's something different (I think) from the poison someone TRIED to get me to eat.
[robhood] No, not biscuity. Cakey. But they're always cubic, like a big dice!
[Ellen Datlow] Actually they sound quite tasty.
[ashamel] The horror... the horror
[robhood] They can be tasty. Depends how fresh they are.
[ashamel] (sorry, just channeling my food allergies)
[Ellen Datlow] Ok. Ok. I'm leaving now and will go watch my movies Thank you all for coming!
[ashamel] Thanks again!
[Talie Helene] Thanks Ellen.
[robhood] Cat says lamingtons aren't as good as they used to be.
[kylaw] Have fun!
[ashamel] It's been great
[Ellen Datlow] You're welcome.
[robhood] We'll email you re NY...
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Oops. Too late, Rob.
[kylaw] SO... did anyone remaining get tot he Conflux banquet?
[ashamel] Yeah, you better not go
[Talie Helene] Thanks everyone for the great questions.
[ashamel] I'll take your tickets
[Damien Kane] Yeah: thanks all. Have a great day. See ya!
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Yeah, this has been good, people.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Rob - when do you leave for WFC?
[markmca] That was great. I asked no questions but I'm glad I came. Bye all.
[robhood] Oh well. Thanks everyone. That was fun ... even if the Chat format is a little chaotic. I've never done one before.
[ashamel] It's strange
[ashamel] We'll put up a transcript, and try to clean it up a bit
[Damien Kane] Nor have I, Rob - nice meeting you by the way. Heard a lot about you.
[robhood] Miranda, we leave on the 29th, but get there on the 29th, too.
[Talie Helene] It wasn't too hard to follow. A transcript would be great.
[Miranda Siemienowicz] I love instant teleportation, don't you?
[robhood] Likewise, Damien. I guess I'd better go trim some bushes in the garden!
[ashamel] I'm off to fail to watch Inland Empire :-)
[ashamel] One day...
[Talie Helene] Cheers Rob & David.
[Damien Kane] See ya!
[Miranda Siemienowicz] Have a nice Sunday, all.
[robhood] Yeah, sorry about that David.
[ashamel] No problem
[robhood] Bye all.
[ashamel] Nobody else could make it either
[Talie Helene] Yes, thanks to all for contributing. Cheers ears.
[kylaw] No? Then it's back to Chapter 11.